Two women talk Love, Sex, Sexuality
===
Casey: [00:00:00] Hi there. Welcome back to the purpose map podcast. I'm Casey, Bergland your host and the founder of where the unwell and I am so glad that you're here for this conversation about sex, sexuality, intimacy, love. I've been wanting to speak about this for quite some time because of the connection between sex and sexuality in our experiences and embodiments.
Casey: I feel like experiences in Saks and experiences or exploratory journeys around sexuality. I have the opportunity to help you go deeper into your body and deeper into an embodied experience or traumatizing experiences in sex and sexuality can actually make you more disembodied. And so this topic is really important [00:01:00] and typically this would be a solo episode week, but I decided to sit down with my dear dear friend, Jean Noonan, to have this conversation with her.
Casey: Yeah, she and I talk all the time. Uh, we share our lives with each other consistently. She's one of my dearest pals. Uh, she's Irish has a beautiful accent and I can't wait. You can't wait for you to meet her if you haven't already. Um, and we've been sharing behind the scenes about our own journeys with.
Casey: Uh, exploring our sexuality and sex and intimacy and partnerships and all of this stuff. And I thought that she would be the perfect person to bring onto the podcast for a conversation, just a raw, honest, authentic conversation, because the topic of sex and sexuality can be triggering. Um, you know, any of the episodes here on the purpose of that podcast can be triggering.
Casey: I just want. I encourage you to let your body lead, to pay attention to how you feel, to [00:02:00] take care of yourself, to practice self care and to be open and step into this conversation with the willingness to receive some bit of healing. And or wisdom, I'm not going to talk too long because this conversation is too good to spend too much time getting to.
Casey: But before we dig in one little reminder, uh, actually this might be the first time I'm sharing this with you. Do your podcast listener on January 2nd. It is a new moon and I am facilitating a. Day retreat for you for free in this day retreat, you will gather. Online with your fellow people, uh, friends, maybe strangers turned friends, people from the worthy mall community, we will be gathering together and I will be guiding you into a like restful restorative journey into your own body and into your [00:03:00] own desires and truths.
Casey: And then taking you through a process to help you get clear about what you want to call it. For 2022, we'll be using the purpose map framework as a guide and integrating the, let your body lead method. In our day retreat, I used to run these day retreats live in person for about $500 for the whole day.
Casey: And I'm offering this to you for free. Um, it will be two kind of 90 minute bouts, uh, but set up in a way that. We'll help you feel like you truly are retreating and setting yourself up for a beautiful, beautiful 2022. So the link to register is connected to this podcast. It's in the show notes. I would love for you to say yes to yourself and join me and other community members for beautiful connecting time together to set up your 2022.
Casey: Okay. Without further ado. Welcomed [00:04:00] into our conversation. All right, Jeannie. I'm so excited. Let's start. I'm going to pull a card from the divine feminine Oracle deck for us today. Before we dig into conversation, what do you think of that?
Jeanie: yes.
Casey: All right. Just giving them a little shuffle here. So we are gathering together the two of us to
Casey: talk about love, sex, sexuality, to have just like an open conversation to friends.
Casey: You know, like we're, not
Casey: really experts on this stuff outside of our own
Casey: experience. Right.
Jeanie: Yeah, I think that in a way makes us, yeah, well, we're, we're, we're currently deep in exploration. Probably the most in tune scientists you have.
Casey: Oh, I love this says the says the former chemist, Hey, in tune scientists. Okay. Let me cut this stack.
Casey: All [00:05:00] right. The card that I pulled is Mary Magdalen, the apostle, the apostle to the apostles. Tell me about that.
Jeanie: So
Jeanie: she's been coming up so much for me right now. And I played her in a school play when I was 12 and I
Jeanie: took the roles
Jeanie: so seriously.
Casey: Tell me more. Tell me more.
Jeanie: So in, in Arland, anywhere in Catholicism, she's considered like the whore, but actually she, she was the divine feminine. Um,
Jeanie: and she marked Jesus's bro, when he was on the crucifix in, in a very dramatic, dramatically displayed freshen in my school play anyway,
Casey: Oh, my gosh.
Jeanie: on, yeah, like she was kind of, um, from my understanding.
Jeanie: Like, unfortunately branded as the whore, when actually she was the one who was completely
Jeanie: liberated and free. So I feel [00:06:00] like she's my home girl, you know?
Casey: Yes, it's interesting. I also have a connection with Mary Magdalen. I also grew up Catholic and definitely. Did not, uh, was not taught to see Mary Magdalen in a positive light. And then I discovered, um, Meghan Waterson, who is the creator of this divine feminine deck, but Meghan Waterson also wrote a book called Magdalen revealed, and it's about Mary Magdalen scriptures that were torn and buried and.
Casey: When I read Magdalen revealed, I wept because to me, the whole book was about letting your body lead. It was
Casey: about how original sin, isn't really a thing. And that we're born love and born in the image of God. And that our bodies are sacred. The female body is sacred.
Jeanie: Oh, I've I've tingles everywhere. They're everywhere.
Casey: So I have the reading for Mary Magdalen open. Here's what it says, the apostle to the apostles. [00:07:00] I am the bridge between heaven and earth. I am fully human and fully divine.
Casey: Now, Jeanie, should I read the history, of Mary Magdalen and when your soul selects this card or just the latter part?
Jeanie: I think the history, cause we both just kind of touched on it a little. I think that could be really interesting.
Casey: Totally that gave me truth tingles. Okay. Who she is. Mary Magdalen embodies the capacity. we all have to merge with the soul and receive divine guidance through a love that never ends. Mary was born in the first century in Magdalena is. She was the first to witness the resurrection. And for this reason is revered in Christianity as the apostle to the apostles in the meaning of Mary Magdalen, author and episode Kapil priests, Cynthia Bourgeault.
Casey: Ooh, sorry, Cynthia. If I butchered your name relates that the gospels of Thomas Phillip and Mary Magdalen, all reveal Mary, not only at Jesus as Jesus's [00:08:00] beloved companion, no-no. But also as an equal partner in teaching and transmission Borgo believed that Mary Magdalene's gospel contains a secret teaching that Christ gave to Mary so that she could press so that she could pass through the seven stages to reach the soul or the new, which is the highest point of the soul.
Casey: And it is this union with her soul that allows Mary to see the risen Christ in classic, iconic. I Mary Magdalen is associated with an egg and the color red because of an Eastern Orthodox legend. It says that she used an egg to teach the court of Tybee area Caesar about resurrection, Cesar, doubted her and responded that a person could no more rise from the dead than the egg and her hand turn red, the egg turned red, immediate.[00:09:00]
Casey: Legends relate that Mary then traveled to the south of France to escape persecution and to continue her ministry. It is believed she lived the last 30 years of her life in the case of St. Balm, where she met with Christ with the love that inhabits the human heart, but lives on beyond it When your soul selects her card.
Casey: Mary Magdalen represents the fierce, unwavering love that we all have access to within our own vulnerable hearts. It's a love that renders all things sacred from the animals to the angels, from the poorest to the most powerful. It's a love that sees the inherent worth of all things. And it's a love that remains even though, even through the darkest times, even through death, her love is the one that resurrects.
Casey: The gospel of Mary Magdalen relates that Jesus came to unite us to demonstrate to us a true human being and anthropo, [00:10:00] meaning a person who is both fully human and fully divine. This is what Mary became, and it's why she was so beloved to Jesus. She didn't seek to follow him. She sought instead to become her truth.
Casey: Mary Magdalen reminds us that we have the power to receive vision from within. We are worthy of such proximity to the divine because that's the other half of what it means to be truly human. She reminds us that there's a bridge between heaven and earth and that we are that bridge. And she wants us to remember that the truest church we can ever enter is in the heart.
Casey: This is where our true power rests and where love never ends soul, voice meditation. Where has my love not yet reached intention. I am the bridge between
Casey: heaven and earth. I am fully human and fully divine, no mention of a whore in that reading.
Jeanie: [00:11:00] No. And this is it. This is the, um, often toxic
Jeanie: view of people who are liberated and free, you know, whether it be with their love or their sexuality or their, um, yeah. And anything often it's feared on their for re scripted and rebranded to something negative.
Casey: Or to something that fits within a patriarchal norm.
Jeanie: Yes, absolutely.
Casey: Wow. so hearing that card, what does that bring up for you? Uh, that maybe connects back to this topic of love and feminine power and
Casey: female sexuality.
Jeanie: Ah, there was so much, it was so rich. Um, I suppose that the equal Bish really resonated with me, not just from the point of view that. Um, you know, that like Jesus and her were equal, but more from the point of view of [00:12:00] within us all, there are these too often, sometimes seen as polar energies, you know, call it masculine, feminine, yin yang, um, whatever terminology, sun in the mood.
Jeanie: Um, and that's so often we focus on just one, which the Catholic church or the Christian Church in general has focused on Jesus, um, our Christ and that when you can really explore them both in harmony, that's when the magic happens, you know, the bit where it's like she went and lived in the cave with Jesus, her true love, you know?
Jeanie: Um, yeah. You could use that as an analogy and perhaps that's what it was of, you know, retreating within and finding yourself and literally being so satisfied with that deep internal logs, because it's limitless.
Casey: Oh my goodness. Yes. Okay. We need to come back to this piece around [00:13:00] finding yourself and being like satisfied with that deep internal love. I want you to speak more about that and to your point about like Yan young, masculine, feminine, these like polarities. I really, what really strikes me every time I pull that card is the fully human fully divine human.
Casey: And divinity, you know, I think in some, even in our yoga training in, at times Jeannie, I remember feeling like, oh gosh, do you remember? Last time we were in India and I went to that song with the guru and he kind of shamed me in front of everyone. You weren't there. But I think I told you about it, where, where we were talking about how everything is, one, like everything is.
Casey: But then he was speaking about a certain yoga scripture and sort of saying. Without, well, no, pretty overtly talking about how the body and the senses are not real. Like it's an illusion. And I asked this question about like, but [00:14:00] if it's all one, like, is it not true that then the body. Is as sacred or is as divine.
Casey: And he kind of shut the question down, you know, and, and I think what I resonate with in this card is like fully human and fully divine, not this or that. It's like, what's the point of being in these bodies if it's not for a purpose. And if humanity, isn't also
Casey: as divine as when we like pass into another state, you know,
Jeanie: absolutely. Uh, yeah. Uh, there's so much to that, and there's
Jeanie: probably many reasons why he shut you down. And then I know, you know this, but they're all his, you know, you probably asked a very wise question that he wasn't able to answer, um, which we won't dwell on that now. Um, Something I've been really like diving into lately.
Jeanie: Um, for me is where sacredness [00:15:00] and, uh, science meet actually. And, you know, being a chemist and having studied literally how electrons within atoms work, you know, like down to our most fundamental makeup, I can tell you, you know, the speed of light and all of these things. And like when you study that, there's a moment when you start to.
Jeanie: Be an atheist because you just see all of this practical science. Um, and I feel like I've come full circle right around the fact that there is no way that this physical human body with all of its complexities, if you do actually study it atom by atom, there is no way that this isn't a divine miracle.
Jeanie: This, this skin for you says my friend called this body, you know? Um, so we are. Human and divine, because this is our human experience, but we're living as in an absolute divine miracle, a [00:16:00] sacred gift we've been given to experience this body.
Casey: yeah. In all of what this body.
Casey: holds, you know, regardless of, uh, like sex at birth, regardless of, you know, I, I. uh, ignorant of me, but I, about a year or two ago, I was like, what does the I stand for in the LGBTQ I a acronym? And I didn't know. And I learned that it means intersex, which is people who are born with. Um, and, and pardon me, because I'm not an expert at This but both like sex organs, you know? And, and it's like, how has that. Also divine and how has our experience of our bodies and our way of relating with our gender. Um, also how has that not divine and how has it not divine to experience a larger [00:17:00] body versus a smaller body?
Casey: Like I think when I think about it, that way, it's like people in whatever suit, skin suit they come in, it is divine. It's purposeful. And what if we, what if we were able
Casey: to like kind of smash systems of oppression and be able to come back to
Casey: that truth of the divinity in the diversity,
Jeanie: Um, Well, beautiful. This is something that I love how we have not planned this, um, spoiler. And I love her so much of what you're saying is actually still relevant in my life right now. Um, I was in a nightclub recently, um,
Casey: Yeah, you were.
Jeanie: and it was it was I going to use the term of gay club, but let's say LGBTQ plus.
Jeanie: And I was in the bathroom on this very, and these are her words, very masculine presenting, uh, female, um, said [00:18:00] to me, um, can I, can I ask you a question?
Jeanie: And I said, yeah. And she said, you're incredibly feminine. Have you always felt that way? And it really took me aback and I kind of had to take a moment and think, ah, Like straightaway. This big smile came across my face. And I said, actually I have, because you know, I can't imagine what it's like for someone who, um, was assigned a gender at birth that they don't connect to.
Jeanie: Um, but having never actually asked myself that question when she asked me that question, I really deeply felt into. And it was a big yes. Um, and then the two of us proceeded to talk about, um, how I also have a lot of masculine energy and how much I adored that part too. Um, and how they played together.
Jeanie: And, um, I think for her, and again, th [00:19:00] there, her pro pronouns, I asked her. She had been shunning the very feminine side of herself because she had some experiences where she was told feminine she was negative, or, you know, she'd been connecting to maybe not so healthy, feminine traits. And we had this like 40 minute chats, um, all about our connection to healthy and non-healthy feminine, masculine energy.
Jeanie: And the funniest thing about it was just to bring it back on track. Um, as I came out of the bathroom, my friends love and way, cause they thought I'd been like cooking off with something.
Jeanie: No, no, just talking about my sacred femininity and masculinity and they were like wash.
Casey: I love that genie. So good. So good. Um, okay. I want to start by. [00:20:00] Inviting, you know, I know you know this, but, and maybe this is more for me, this topic of like sex and sexuality. Um, it can, it feels a bit edgy for me in a public capacity like you and I talk about it all the time behind the scenes, and obviously this is a recorded podcast.
Casey: And so, Uh, what I wanted to say is like, please honor your own boundaries around. You feel called to share publicly and what you don't. I sometimes get caught up in like curiosity and asking questions and like rolling with it. And maybe that's just a comment for my own self too, of like being mindful of my own edges and attuning to my own body around what I'm comfortable sharing publicly or not around this topic that I haven't been vocal about.
Casey: But that I think is like really, really fucking important, especially considering how, um, I think. Females people who identify as women, people who have Volvos are in their [00:21:00] exploration of like pleasure and sexuality. And so I invite you to have whatever boundaries you need. Cause I want to ask some really curious questions, but like what, what comments do you maybe
Casey: have about that before we even dig into some of those curious questions, anything you need to feel like safe to have this amazing conversation.
Jeanie: Uh, well, just the fact that you've caught a boat that makes me feel safe.
Jeanie: And I kind of would have taken that
Jeanie: as a given because we are so close and I know you wouldn't, um, you know, disrespect me in any of the questions or anything like that. But even when we're, you know, get, I was walking the dog this evening, before he came on the call and I was like, what do I want to talk about?
Jeanie: And just straight away, every part of my body and soul was like, just be yourself because.
Casey: Hmm.
Jeanie: If I get too much into my head of what's this going to mean for my business? And, and what if someone who's, you know, really repressed, listens to it and thinks I'm sort of sex addict and dah, dah, dah. And then I was like, that's their journey, not mine.
Jeanie: And I've, I've been [00:22:00] quiet enough for too long. And, you know, I will, of course honor my boundaries. And like I said, you, you even considering that makes me already feel safe. Um, and yeah, I'd love you to do the same, um, But I also feel like talking about something mindfully with reverence very, very, very rarely leads to, uh, any negative issues.
Jeanie: And I wish little genie when she was 16 and figuring shit out, I could hear a conversation like this, you know? So if, uh, if I'm not doing it for, for adult Jeannie, I'm doing it for, for 16 year old genie. Or maybe done 12 year old genie.
Casey: I so hear you. I, um, I, uh, I think last year I picked up the book vagina by Naomi Wolf and I picked it up because two male, [00:23:00] uh, past lovers of mine had read that book. It just so happened. I mean, I think there's a good reason why I had a completely different experience with each of them compared to other, um, sexual encounters with other people.
Casey: And I think it was because of their awareness of. They had more awareness than I did about female pleasure, to an extent they didn't, they didn't obviously I have lived experience, but the way in which each of them made me feel a level of safety that I didn't even know was possible for me, took time with me in a way that I'd never experienced before and also like offered pleasure in a way I'd never experienced before.
Casey: It was honestly so healing to the point where, um, I had emotional releases through. Sexual or intimate experiences with them because it was so profound. And, you know, in reading the book vagina, which I highly recommend, [00:24:00] I just like, ah, I wept through some of it, like there's a whole chapter on, on trauma and like sexual trauma and how that impacts the brain.
Casey: And it's all about like the nervous system and the brain vagina connection and so much more. But. It was like, why is this not taught in schools? Like, why did younger me not have this wisdom? Why is this like, I, you know, like for the quote conscious or those who have the privilege to like, read something like that.
Casey: So I am totally with you in this. And, and I'll also say, like you were saying on your walk, you were thinking about like, oh, um, you know, just be yourself or be authentic when I was walking in to set up to chat with you. I was thinking about like, oh, Casey, you better remember to say something about a trigger warning, because like, sex is like a, it could be a triggering topic.
Casey: And then I thought about it and I'm like, literally every podcast I've recorded so far could be a triggering topic for someone, you know? And I guess I'm, I. [00:25:00] Trusting the sovereignty of the beings, listening to this and honoring that they, and suggesting and inviting them to take care of themselves. You know, like you can turn this off if you want to, but also like take care of your own heart and lean into your edges if it feels safe enough to do so.
Casey: Um, because we're here to, I think, I think about my core purpose statement aluminate truth and yours is to create refuge. So like, Maybe we
Casey: can do that together and create something that is safe and illuminating for the person
Casey: who needs to hear it right now.
Jeanie: Including ourselves.
Casey: Totally. I I'm already feeling like a little bit healed.
Jeanie: Yeah. Uh, something magic happens when we, when we
Jeanie: look at these things, um, and I'm actually right now looking at a beautiful, like Mandalah dress. Uh, that one of my lovers has done for me. And it is a Yoni, which is the, I suppose, sanscript [00:26:00] or yoga term far, the entire female anatomy, uh, reproductive anatomy, mainly the, uh, volva and labia and on its few rows, an alter where my lovers worship.
Jeanie: And to me, this is what the vulva, the Lavia at the Yoni is, you know, um,
Jeanie: To kind of maybe gender for, for a bit, like it is the portal through which all life comes, you know, how can you not have respect and reverence for this? Yeah. Mystical at times miraculous. Um, I don't even know what noun to call us. Um,
Casey: Yeah. Every portal is probably the best word to use. As you're saying, I don't even know what noun to call it. I'm like part, [00:27:00] no, like there's just like, not a word that. Is rich with the energy of that reverence, you know, it's
Casey: hard to find words for a part of the
Casey: body, literally, like you said, through which all
Casey: life comes.
Jeanie: and another practice, a temple. Uh, playground a blossoming Mandalah of soft flesh.
Casey: Wow. That's turning me on a little bit. Yeah.
Jeanie: Good.
Casey: Um, Jamie. How often are you to sharing like a little bit of your own journey, like with your body? And I think, I don't know, it's like, it is a journey with the body, but then I think like exploring sex and sexuality is a whole other level of embodiment and a whole other level of healing. But like what feels important in this
Casey: moment in terms of how you would describe your [00:28:00] journey, your
Casey: your own sexuality journey.
Jeanie: Um, I always for the last maybe. So I'm coming up to being 37 and for probably 34 to 35 years of my life, I would have called myself. Like, not that sexual
Casey: Wow.
Jeanie: it. I know that's a shock to you them.
Casey: I'm like, huh? What?
Jeanie: But looking back now, I was incredibly sexual
Jeanie: repressed it because I was told constantly by my environment, society, religion, that it was wrong.
Jeanie: And looking back, I have, I have memories of like, self-pleasuring at like 6, 7, 8, you know, I have memories of [00:29:00] like, you know, Kissing the back of my hand, or, you know, with friends of mine, we would like link our finger, baby fingers around each other and kiss our own finger, pretending we were kissing kind of, you know, um, and like even saying that out loud, no, I'm like, oh, is that wrong?
Jeanie: But I bet most people listening have some sort of similar perhaps memory. Um, and I think growing up. Um, I suppose with the mother who had really low self-esteem, our house was full of love, like bursting with love. Like everyone was always welcome in our home. Um, you know, we used to always have people who were in trouble would come to our home and they would find refuge there.
Jeanie: But unfortunately my mom had really low self-esteem. For many different reasons, um, including at a very young age, same age, as I am [00:30:00] now have having lost one of her entire breasts. She had breast cancer, um, which I can't imagine what that does to your sense of femininity and pleasure and enjoyment of your body.
Jeanie: Um, and so without it wasn't her fault, but I was being constantly. Said this narrative of, I hate my body. I hate my body. I hate my body. It's not, it's not what society thinks it should be. I'm not pretty, you know, all of this thing and that, that has an effect. Um, and so in my mind, the body, wasn't something to be enjoyed.
Jeanie: It. Wasn't something tough. Pleasure. Um, it was something to control food so that you looked a certain way, you know, it was something to be approved of by others. So it wasn't yours. It was something that other people dictated, whether it was good or bad. Um, and then [00:31:00] I suppose growing up as you come into the early teens and things become a bit more sexual.
Jeanie: There was definitely a fear in me of letting people in and letting people become close. And so I always did the push people away. So any guy who came and like approached me, I just be like, Nope. Um, very much kept my body to myself. And yes, I kissed boys and I kissed my friends like his female friends, but probably not in a romantic way at the time.
Jeanie: And then I suppose, as, as lots of my friends starts to lose their virginity, I'm going to use that term, I suppose, started to have intercourse and more intimate touch for the first time. There was something about me. I just didn't trust another person to do that. And so I didn't lose my virginity till I was 21, which again was another reason why in my mind, I told myself I wasn't sexual or that I wasn't, you know, [00:32:00] That free.
Jeanie: Whereas looking back, it was all I thought about and it was all I craved and want, not all, but it was a lot of what I craved and wanted. Um, and so again, I had this narrative of, you know, I'm not as sexual as my friends or I'm not as sexual as my peers. Um, and then even after age 21, I very rarely had. Sex.
Jeanie: It was very much in relationship when I really trusted and liked someone. Um, and it will go to the reasons behind that, but there was lots of trust issues with men and, um, in a way maybe looking back, I can reframe it to be that I had quite a lot of sovereignty with my body. Um, but I think in my mind it was actually a control thing of I'm going to control who's who's here and who's who gets, you know, to experience different things.
Jeanie: Um, and I suppose for most of my, actually for all of my twenties and early thirties, I would have [00:33:00] considered myself heterosexual. Um, and I have so many friends who aren't heterosexual, but I don't think I ever. I gave myself permission to explore. And I think further than that, um, and it wasn't a repressed thing.
Jeanie: It wasn't like I was hiding this part to myself. Um, but I really think that because I, because I was often attracted to men in my mind, I was had sexual, um, on. It wasn't until I was like in my, even just a few years ago, I started to meet people who were bisexual biromantic by sensual. Uh, maybe some people identify as pansexual or demisexual where the gender doesn't necessarily play a huge role.
Jeanie: And I think the more I began to love my body far, this beautifully functioning, as opposed to what it looks. Uh, um, [00:34:00] gift. I was like, oh, I can now appreciate all their bodies, whether they're in a male presenting female presenting, whatever, uh, body. And it was like, it was like opening Pandora's box. For me, it was like,
Jeanie: when like
Casey: you're giving me chills.
Jeanie: good.
Casey: you're giving me chills.
Casey: I don't want to
Casey: interrupt you. You said really? Keep going. Keep going. Yes. Yes.
Jeanie: I just check it. You could hear me and everything. Okay. Um, and yeah, it's, it's been such a beautiful journey. Um, journey. Sometimes that word is so overused, but, um, Oh, just absolute exploration. And I was having a chat with a dear, dear sister of mine, um, who has really helped me in this journey actually.
Jeanie: Um, she does a lot of females, sensuality embodiment, Yoni [00:35:00] circles. And I think because I never really adored or worshiped my own Yoni. That I didn't think I could do that to another. And as soon as I developed this beautifully intimate relationship with my own and actually started to love it for what it was and what it doors, as opposed to, oh, that looks different to pictures I've seen or porn.
Jeanie: I've seen. I started to really love my own Yoni. And then I thought, oh my God, I could love another Yoni. And I think in my very recent exploration with women, Oh, my God. It is so beautiful. It's such a, it's such a, do you know what it feels like? It feels like I've been eating Italian food for Farsi four year, five years.
Jeanie: And suddenly I've gone to like a world cuisine festival.
Casey: And, you know, Italians pretty good
Jeanie: It's exactly. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with [00:36:00] Italian food.
Casey: oh,
Casey: wow. You know, maybe I will, you know, I want to check in with you. Is there more you want to say right now, or can I, can I interject and then continue this story? Jeannie, I'm having this moment listening to you where. You know, I've known you since 2017, we've become so, so close in the last few years, especially over the pandemic when we were supposed to facilitate that retreat in India.
Casey: And then we didn't, and you know, we've been catching up talking like every week, if not every day. And I didn't know. How deeply our journeys mirrored each other.
Jeanie: Um,
Casey: I had, I didn't know, like I was nodding my head through. All of what you were sharing, including the like childhood experiences when you were talking about like linking pinkies and pretending to like kiss [00:37:00] each other through kissing each other's hand or whatever.
Casey: A memory came to mind of being probably around like seven or eight and being at a friend's place. And being playing in her basement. And then suddenly we like had this sort of fashion show. We were like playing dress up and have this fashion show. And then the fashion show turned into like stripping down the runway, you know?
Casey: And it was all pretend right. But I remember feeling like something in my body when I watched my friend take her clothes off. I don't know how to describe it with words, but I was young. And I think that experience of like shutting off. Uh, part of myself, the experience of like, not having a good relationship with my body.
Casey: I mean, for me, my story was around like having an eating disorder when I was younger. Um,
Casey: and then carrying on this, this journey with my own body, I feel like coming [00:38:00] back into my body and loving my own body has totally opened up who and what I can appreciate as well. And. That is so liberating. Um,
Casey: I mean, obviously that's a brief story, but so many elements of what you're talking about.
Casey: I relate with so hard and especially the connection. The connection between self appreciation, body appreciation. Like I remember it was only probably within the last five or six years that I took a mirror to my own Yoni, to my own, like volva and saw what it looked like. I'd never even seen it before, you know?
Casey: And it's like, holy shit, I'm in my late twenties. And I don't even know what my own vulva looks like. And haven't even like, appreciated it. It's like wild to me.
Casey: Um, so. I don't know. I'm just,
Jeanie: Yeah, sorry.
Casey: I'm just feeling so grateful for this conversation, but yeah. Say what you want to say.
Jeanie: Just, you know, I had [00:39:00] this chat with a friend recently, very similar things. Like we
Jeanie: hadn't ever seen our vulva or like, you know, like actually appreciated dish. And then we just burst out laughing because we were like, I betcha every person with a deck, a cock, whatever you want to call. It has intimately studied there, like
Casey: And add other men too. And other men like, think about like dressing room, you know, it's like, I don't know. I have, I have a couple of guy friends live that live down the way and it's like, they're always walking around naked in their house and you know, like, it's interesting, you know, whereas I was the person in the change room that was like making sure I was so covered up.
Casey: I was so like, not comfortable with my own body. Um, my sexuality was. Shamed overtly covertly, who knows, like, I didn't feel comfortable. I didn't know what to do when I got my, period, you know, I had to like fiddle with a tampon and I thought even using a tampon was bad because my mom had told me I should use [00:40:00] pads.
Casey: And I thought it was like a religious thing, like a sin if I wanted to use a tampon, you know? And so it's like, wow. When we start from that perspective of this experience of like something about my body is wrong. And then finally go on a healing journey and find like moment after moment of deeper embodiment, deeper liberation, you know, exploring sexuality, I think takes embodiment deeper.
Casey: Like this is so connected to the journey of being fully an expressed actualized. Human is
Casey: connecting with and loving your body and your sexuality.
Jeanie: Yeah. Oh, it's my, it's my wish for everyone because there's another beautiful book called sex at Dawn, and it's written by a psychiatrist and an evolutionary psychologist and they go into like the, um, [00:41:00] the, like the biochemistry. Sexuality as well as the anthropology of it and the evolutionary psychology of it.
Jeanie: And it's one of the lines in the book just hit me so hard. It said in every culture, in every corner of the world, regardless of religion, society, political standing, people have sex people. Use their bodies for pleasure. And in parts of the world where it is punishable by death, by public stoning, it's punishable to have sex.
Jeanie: I said of marriage or to have an affair, people still do. Therefore, it is such an innate and intrinsic part of who we are, that if we remove all of the shame, all of the taboo and just encourage and allow people to honor the sacredness of our bodies, when they're [00:42:00] exploring for pleasure, whether it's with yourself, two people, three people, a hundred people, um, like you, you can.
Jeanie: You can stem the power. It's that strong? It's that innate?
Casey: Yeah. Speaking of power, I mentioned earlier that the, you know, first off, thank you for sharing that part of that book. It's like so beautiful. Um, and that part about power at the end made me think about how, when I have A really safe and connected intimate experience sexually for like a week after. I am productive, efficient.
Casey: I feel like a powerhouse. I feel like wonder woman. I feel like a creative fucking genius. I connect with my clients better. I write like, like I channel wisdom. Do you have that experience as well after really
Casey: beautiful, [00:43:00] uh, connecting sexual experience that it, it like expands your life force.
Jeanie: A hundred percent and I'm just smiling here, ear to ear, remembering one particular
Jeanie: moment. Um, I'd had like pretty much just a week of pleasure to be honest, which is absolutely gorgeous. And I was meeting friends that Friday, um, for dinner and it was a really crowded, like. And I'm not joking. I walked and the crowd parted.
Jeanie: Like I like
Casey: Genie parts, the red sea.
Jeanie: some people were stepping out of my way out. It wasn't in a, like me being in a
Jeanie: force field, get out of my way. I'm a power bitch way. It was like, it was like, like you said, my life force was so expansive. People felt me coming before I did, you know, um,
Casey: Hmm.
Jeanie: And my friend said, whoa, and it was lovely.
Jeanie: They reflected back. They really look out, look at how powerful you are. [00:44:00] And I was like, yes, you know, um, um, and this all ties back around to if that power isn't used with reverence and respect, it can be dangerous. And that was the part that was Shawn and shamed and tried to be pushed down by. Society the church religion, because anything that has that much power can bring about fear.
Jeanie: If it's not understood, you know,
Casey: it's like, just like, I believe that Incredible heart centered, you know, women non-binary, uh, BiPAP, people who have traditionally been marginalized, just like I believe that if those people became rich and had their hearts aligned with dismantling systems of oppression and expanding love in the world, [00:45:00] that money would just amplify that because it's like money is power, right.
Casey: Wealth in the hands of those who are doing good, equals more good in the world. I think it's similar that like this power sexually, um, that energy, that creative sexual life force energy, um, in the hands of people. Doing good will only amplify the goodness, you know, and it also makes sense historically, and in a patriarchal society that
Casey: that's scary as fuck AKA, which has get burned at the stake, you know,
Casey: powerful, liberated women,
Jeanie: Yeah. And let's not discount that from our own journeys and those listening, especially if you grew up in a
Jeanie: Catholic or even Christian society where sex was shamed, sex was controlled. Uh, women were shamed and controlled, um, and even way back ancestrally, um, you know, where, like you said, which were burned at the stake and the [00:46:00] term, which being probably one who had know.
Jeanie: Uh, harnessed their power. Um, and actually something that's just come to mind. I remember reading of my, I don't have a quote or a reference quite yet, but, um, that the word spinster was initially a really like positive term that, um, described a woman who was so good at spinning yarn. She didn't need. To Mary for financial security.
Jeanie: Um, and I love that because so often the term spinster is used negatively. Um, and I even think Virgin was used as one who controls their sexual power. One who didn't just give it away. You know, willy-nilly pun intended, um, had reverends and sovereignty around us, you know,
Casey: [00:47:00] Right. Yeah. Yeah. That reminded me, reminds me, I think, way back I, I had the book that's called spinster. That's like about that. It's about being a,
Casey: you know, like powerful, strong, independent woman and owning it, kind of reclaiming that word.
Jeanie: And even full circling around that, which is where I feel I'm coming to at the moment of yes, being that unknowing. You don't need another to provide for you financially or secure. Why. But then surrendering into your feminine and receiving when someone comes into your life that wants to give to you, you know, um, because so often we can get stuck in that, which is more erring into the shadow masculine or the unhealthy masculine of, I don't need anyone.
Jeanie: I don't need anything. I've got this, you know, and it doesn't allow us to receive. And you, you, you have to receive pleasure as well as give.
Casey: [00:48:00] Totally. Yeah, that reminds me of a, a friend of mine. Her name is Leah lake and she is a love and relationships guide. She, uh, when I first met her, she very much talked about masculine, feminine energy, quite a bit. And lately she's been talking a lot about the integrated woman and attracting an integrated partner.
Casey: And she sent out an email recently that I read that was about being on your life raft. Like stay on your own life raft, take care of your own needs on your life raft. And what you want is someone else to float up on their life raft and to like maybe tethered to each other, but you each stay on your own life raft.
Casey: So you get to like be together and co-create together and, uh, have a healthy dynamic, but you're not pulling that person onto your life raft or you're not jumping over onto you. You each have your own and you're floating along in a mutually beneficial way. And I just love that analogy and, you know, have learned so much from, from Leah and other people [00:49:00] like Taren our last week's podcast, guests about just healthy relationships and healthy dynamics among people.
Casey: Um, so yeah, I think, I think, you know, I, I definitely have. Self identified as well as, um, other people have identified me as like a strong, independent woman, you know? And I would imagine that you have had similar experiences of that type of identification. And sometimes, sometimes what that means is like, I I'll speak from the, I, I am perceived as like intimidating to other people.
Casey: And, and, or what I've realized recently is recently being the last few years is that I don't think I really did know what true vulnerability was. And I think my heart was armored. And I think part of the strong, independent woman archetype did come from a place of like fear of vulnerability or [00:50:00] fear of that hurt.
Casey: And. And I think on my own journey, that is such an overused word, Um, healing and expanding and integrating journey. I would say that this being in this place of feeling owning my strong, independent woman, this and having a soft heart to soft and open heart to receive connection and intimacy, even when it's scary.
Casey: I feel like that integration is happening, happening more for me. And, and I think in the past couple of years, um, I didn't realize to be honest, how traumatized I was around sex and sexuality. Like it's just been in recent years that I've been healing from experiences of rape experiences of betrayal experiences of like really seeing why and having compassion for the part of me that has.
Casey: Had to armor up her heart in order to [00:51:00] survive in the world when it came to intimacy and relationships and the, the healing around that has felt, uh, terrible in some moments as well as like liberating and. I don't know you and I both are, are committed to a journey of self-actualization or, you know, without forgetting to have fun and being human.
Casey: Right.
Casey: But it's, it's just like amazing to me, the unfolding of my own journey.
Jeanie: Um, yeah, and I just want to
Jeanie: give armored Casey like this biggest hog and be like, well, don't, you kept yourself safe. Like you used the tools you needed to keep yourself safe in that moment. And also well done for allowing that armor to calm down even just a little bit, because. That's scary, especially if it's been there for so long.
Jeanie: Um, and like you said, that's hard, but then it can be so [00:52:00] beautiful as well. Um, and yeah, I can totally resonate with that. You know, like, like I said, at the start, just pushing everyone away. If they don't come close, they can't hurt me, you know? Um, And yeah, even in a sexual way, like I used to either have to be drunk or the lights off, or, you know, in a really trusting, committed relationship, um, you know, to even be naked or, you know, and yeah, it's, it's often the case for some people for life.
Jeanie: So high five, you know, where we're, we're figuring it out as we go and, and it's beautiful.
Casey: Oh, yeah. I love morning sex in the daylight with my,
Jeanie: Oh,
Casey: in the nude bod,
Jeanie: yes. Morning is
Casey: I.
Jeanie: best.
Casey: But yeah, I totally relate with you and thank you for that. Like compassionate share boat armor tastes like, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Little case for [00:53:00] doing what you needed to, to keep me safe. And I fucking loved that version of me, you know, and I'm so grateful that she's been open to healing and letting go and opening up and having a like mushy gushy, soft, tender heart.
Jeanie: Um,
Casey: With, without losing the part of me that has my own fucking back, like also don't fuck with me, right? Like I'm going to be open and soft and heart centered. And if I'm at risk, like I think that's what allows me to be open and soft and heart centered is knowing that I trust myself enough to, um, have boundaries and to,
Casey: say what I need, um, And stand up for myself when that's called for,
Jeanie: And it in any second at any moment, you have so many tools to get yourself out of a situation that no longer feel safe, you know?
Casey: Yeah.
Jeanie: Yeah, which is, it's just gorgeous to [00:54:00] think, you know, it's almost like you're packing for, I don't know, like a camping trip and it's like, are you really going to go right deep into the woods?
Jeanie: If you don't have all the equipment you need, you know, to keep yourself dry and warm? Um, yeah.
Casey: Well, and I'm also gonna go slowly and maybe meet up with the folks that I'm going into the woods with a few times beforehand. And. Like, I feel, I feel like part of what helps my heart stay open is slowing down the process. And I've sort of realized that in the past, I just like went to all in too soon.
Casey: And so, and then there'd be this rebound. And I think that for me, the integrated way is like slowing it down. There's not a rush. And, and what I know about myself is like, man, if I, if I never partnered and if I just like lived my life as I do today for the rest of my life, like that would be pretty damn good.
Casey: So it's like, it feels so [00:55:00] beautiful to not have this attachment, to like meeting or gripping for, um, something from another person. 'cause I really do feel like I've learned how to provide for
Casey: myself in a way that feels nourishing and keeps me loving my life, whether single or partnered, you know,
Jeanie: Uh, my whole body. Because again, such a parallel, I feel like it's only in the last few months I've got there. Um, I think I've always been very graspy with relationships and with, even with lovers. Um, and I had a really beautiful moment of realization that I'd love to share, um, on this recent training that I did, which was all around sacred sexuality, spirituality, and kind of show manic experiences.
Jeanie: Um, And they use these, the term sex as an S S S E X, which is sacred, spiritual Chemonics, [00:56:00] erotic experiences, I think is the category. And I will go to the details of it, but, um, you know, there, there was intimate experiences happening and I feel like. Uh, a lot of people really jumped in, you know, with this kind of graspy mentality of this is my only chance to have these sacred, connected experiences with people.
Jeanie: And I just had this beautiful moment. I didn't know if I'm really smoke, but I was just sitting, observing. And just being so content setting. And I had like two beautiful souls on either side of me and we were chatting and connecting and I just had this moment of I'm 36. I have my whole life ahead of me to have the most beautiful, connected experiences with people in this moment.
Jeanie: I don't feel that connected to any one person that I want to do anything right now. [00:57:00] And I feel like if I had gone in and done that training even a year or two years before I would have been jumping into all of these things, you know, and not actually getting much from it, you know, um, And I'm the exact same.
Jeanie: I, I joke to my sister that I like, I, I love being, you know, the crazy wild auntie who every Christmas is going to have a new partner or, you know, have a new story or, um, be the kind of equally, if I, if I partner a beautiful, you know, I'm not adverse to that at all. Um, boss. Yeah. It's just. Having options and knowing that yeah.
Jeanie: That you can, you can, and you know, there's a lot of people listening know too. You can have an incredibly deep connection with someone you meet once, you know, it's like that, that might be, that might be enough. [00:58:00] And that kind of satisfied relinquish relinquished. Is that a word that's coming to mind? Yeah.
Jeanie: That kind of relinquish. Sense of like, I have everything I need and I can provide everything I need.
Jeanie: And then if someone, or someone's adds to that, such a bonus.
Casey: Um, yeah, like icing on the cake.
Jeanie: Yeah.
Casey: You make me smile. So fucking big genie. I just think you are such a stunning goddess inside and out. And I'm like so grateful that we have connected and have this like sisterhood that's like mutually expensive and raw
Casey: and honest and authentic and fun and silly. And like, the shit we talk about on WhatsApp, day-to-day such a gift.
Jeanie: Orange you look back through our media files and you were like, fuck.
Casey: We have like day to day [00:59:00] photos that we send back and forth like you and your, what do you call it? That little garden space. What do you call
Casey: it? Where with your two friends that you go to where the dome there's like a dome you don't talking about. It's like a greenhouse kind of,
Jeanie: Oh, the
Casey: do you call it? the polytunnel.
Casey: yes.
Casey: When you first told me about the poly tunnel, I thought you were talking about polyamorous relationships. Like, what is this thing? Tell me more about the polytunnel. And it's like a, it's like a greenhouse garden or something, anyway, we have, we have like photos from your polytunnel and like photos, I don't know, probably meet and dinner in the tub, uh, to like, I don't know, just everything.
Casey: Pictures back and forth that they're so playful and serious. And, you know, circling back to the very beginning where we talked about, Um, diversity and polarities embodied, you know, seeming polarities, it's like we're multi-dimensional and get to be all of those things and get to have relationships that are [01:00:00] authentic.
Casey: And, you know, I appreciate so much about you that you respect and value and
Casey: amplify all of those parts of me. Uh, equally, you know, it's just so beautiful.
Jeanie: Um, coming right back to the start. Like this is love, you know, like this is
Jeanie: like love between us love for our bodies. Love for the world's love for exploration, love for the journey. Um, you know,
Casey: for food. Love for touch love for all things sensual you has.
Jeanie: Yes. Yeah. Uh, so gorgeous.
Casey: Yeah. I, I, I just, oh, I feel as though we will have many more of these conversations, you. know, depending on how you listener respond to this, like you know, I'm just here to serve you. so if you have feedback, if you liked this, let, let me know. I'll have more conversations with Jean. Any [01:01:00] day. Um, but I just want to thank you for being here with me and taking this time
Casey: and bearing with the different tech issues we had at the start.
Casey: Um,
Jeanie: That's part of it. Thank you. And like I said, I just felt so safe. I knew. And do you know what? I wasn't actually that aware that we were recording, if that makes sense. And then it goes away, you know, it was just like, yeah. All sharing and chatting, which is the always gorgeous.
Casey: So beautiful. Um, what do you have coming up for the holiday season?
Jeanie: Um, I will be with my beautiful family. Um, and then for new years I am actually going to a beautiful, um, kind of, um, I'm going to a beautiful, Uh, tantric experience actually with, um, a lover of mine and some other beautiful seeking [01:02:00] gorgeous friends. So I'm really looking forward to that. I've never quite enjoyed new year's Eve.
Jeanie: And I feel like this is going to be really present, really grounded, gorgeous celebration of life and beauty.
Casey: Hmm. Wow. I can't wait to
Casey: hear more about that.
Jeanie: Prior to
Casey: yeah.
Casey: no kidding. I love it
Jeanie: yeah.
Casey: Okay, my dear, I will chat with you probably tonight and tomorrow and the next day and next week. and you know, the conversation shall continue.
