An Embodied Way to Lead with Julie Beaulac and Courtney Amo
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Casey: [00:00:00] Welcome back, my friend to the Purpose Map podcast. This is Casey Burgland, your host and the founder of Worthy and well also co-author of our new book, the Mind Body Way, the Embodied Leaders. Path to resilience, connection, and purpose. I am joined in this episode again by Dr. Julie Boak and Courtney amo, my two beautiful, amazing, wonderful co-authors of the Mind Body Way, and specifically in this episode.
This is part two of a two-part series. In this episode, we talk about the content of the book, how you as a leader, Become more embodied and how that will really support you with being more resilient and connected, purpose-driven, loving, et cetera. So we take you into the six pillars of the book and guide you into the why.
Why are these pillars important? How can they impact you? And what outcomes and [00:01:00] results can embodying these pillars create for you and the people that you serve. So let's jump right.
So early on we decided on some core pillars of the Embodied Leader process and it's interesting to me how we really didn't waiver from those pillars really since we decided on.
We, we really decided quickly and then grounded in and, and wrote about them. Um, so yeah. Julie, do you wanna speak about the pillars in particular of the embodied leader pathway or the mind body way? Yeah, it is, it's striking to me thinking back about the
Julie: early phases of our, our writing and how there were the, just these natural.
Um, key concepts that emerged both from our interviews with leaders on embodiment and leadership on our [00:02:00] review of the literature and of our own sort of personal journeys. And we very quickly came up with these six key pillars for embodied leadership. And there was this natural flow of where we might want to focus on initially in terms of really the initial
Casey: pathway of.
Julie: Becoming a more embodied leadership that would then develop into, um, the next sta steps or, or phases of embodied leadership. I'm not sure what would be most useful in terms of going through them, like just
Casey: naming them or. Yeah. Well maybe, maybe to start also, we had conversations about who this book is really for and, and maybe that's a place to start, that this book is for the leader mm-hmm.
Who has had some sort of shift change, awakening. That has brought about a call to do things differently. So whether that leader has had a health issue, has experienced some level of exhaustion or [00:03:00] burnout has lost a loved one, or gone through a breakup or a divorce, or some sort of change in a relationship or lost their job, you know, anything can happen.
But I think that there's this common path where we're sort of like, Living and leading on autopilot, doing what we think we should do, and then something happens. And so we wrote this book for the leader who has experienced a need for change, and it's meant to be an accessible guide where we are bringing embodiment.
To those leaders as the gateway to find a more fulfilling way to work, a more fulfilling and connected way to lead. You know, right in our, our title, the subtitle is The Embodied Leader's Path to Resilience, connection, and Purpose. And so those are some really key outcomes that we wanted, that we want you as, as a reader to.
Walk away with is like, how can you, through embodiment experience more resilience through understanding self-regulation and co-regulation of your nervous system? How can you [00:04:00] become more connected and collaborative with others, and how can you also find a deeper sense of purpose and trust through? Your working world.
Courtney mentioned in the last episode that work can be a platform for personal and professional growth, and that there's a difference between just like working together and actually collaborating. So this book is for you if you're a leader who's ready to lead in a different way. And, um, And it's kind of from that framing, like what do we really want our reader to achieve that these pillars came to be?
Um, and so I think, I think it is worth maybe even just like one at a time going through each pillar and sharing a little bit more about it and why we think that it's a really important part of the process towards embodied leadership. Mm-hmm. Um, does that help Julie? Yeah, absolutely. I think
Julie: that's a great jumping off point case.
It was an [00:05:00] immediate, um, yes to what, where we needed to start, and that is with really building body awareness and compassion. I know in the work I do with, with clients and in my own personal journey, when we're not connected to, uh, being able to even identify what's showing up at a body level for ourselves.
It's really difficult to connect with others to do that collaborative work, to have a sense of purpose or connection to, to really our lives. And so starting with more that body-based awareness and how we can respond to ourselves more compassionately. So it's not about. You know, getting rid of a, a self-critical thought, or, I know lots of people, most of us struggle from time to time with this idea of like, feeling like an imposter.
Mm-hmm. Um, like I'm not good enough or somehow, um, yeah, you know, my job title says this, or I play this role in my life, but I don't really [00:06:00] deserve it. And I'm, you know, someone's gonna find me out. So starting from a place of what is, you know, showing up inside of you and, and being able to really tap in as a foundation to use that wisdom to then respond in different ways.
And doesn't mean we always, um, Take, um, our body signals as the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but that we can use it as information and, and check in. Is there something here that is worth checking out or doing something about? And then how can I respond to myself in a caring way, not to let myself off the hook or just go, oh, you're perfect.
You're amazing, you're great, but rather to go, okay. You know, how can I come from a place of kindness to maybe motivate myself to show up differently in a, in a more, um, empathic way with my team or my colleagues, or, you know, get up [00:07:00] earlier, um, to meditate before work, or go for a walk,
Casey: do whatever goals or things you're wanting
Julie: to work on rather than from a place of self-criticism.
So that first pillar is a foundation. I find it really. Difficult, if not impossible, to, to go along any sort of path of, of growth without first connecting more to building that awareness of the body and responding, um, more compassionately rather than self, critically, or judgmentally.
Casey: Mm-hmm. I really love that you use the term like it's not about letting yourself off the hook, but responding in a caring way.
I feel like that's worth kind of mentioning again, because I do feel like people see self-compassion as like, oh, I'm just gonna swing the pendulum and do whatever the heck I want. But it's actually not like deeply caring or deeply nourishing, but in order to [00:08:00] determine what's deeply caring and deeply nourishing, Body awareness is key because it's like underneath those body sensations is the truth.
Mm-hmm. So I love how you describe that there. Um, thanks. Sorry, go ahead. Thanks for highlighting that. Yeah. I just, I, I'm still just like learning so much from the two of you. It's, it's insane. I love it so much. Um, Courtney, what would you say about pillar two? Hmm.
Courtney: Well, we're tying into what Julie just said around the, the foundation of awareness and compassion as being necessary for this path.
I think to have that awareness and compassion. We also need to, to understand a little bit about the inner workings. And so we wanted to write, um, around the nervous system, around the [00:09:00] mind body connection. Around topics and themes like polyvagal theory in a way that was gonna be really easy to understand and connect to.
Because if you don't know how this is all working inside of you, you can have compassion for it, but you don't necessarily have. Understanding or the tools to be able to take action. And so we really wanted to make sure that the reader had had just enough of this information without getting into a whole lot of technical details so that they felt first compassion for themselves.
Like when I feel my nervous system, Getting Overactivated overstimulated. I can have compassion for that and know [00:10:00] that I also have the capacity to bring myself back into regulation or to reach out to someone else to help bring me back through co-regulation. And I know that I can do that because I understand what's going on.
Yeah. Can I add point
Julie: there? Court that I think yeah. Really resonates for a lot of people. Is. We don't choose our body's response to stress. It's a biologically driven way that our body just responds to things that it perceives as a threat. And so you can tell yourself, there's nothing to worry about here.
And you know, the more primitive part of our brain just goes
Casey: into high alert. Well, danger, danger. And so this pillar really gets at, at that that's
Julie: what polyvagal theory is all about. It's just an updated model of stress. Mm.
Casey: And the listener cannot see the [00:11:00] video right now, but as Julie was describing, like you can't tell yourself that you're not stressed.
She's tapping her fingertips on her forehead or the prefrontal cortex, like the part of the brain. So she's actually like in an embodied way, describing this. By tapping different parts of the head and the brain, which in the book we have some diagrams that help you to understand like which parts of the brain are activated in these, uh, different moments or what their functions are.
That helps to support the understanding of, of polyvagal theory, which I don't know, it's been a game changer for me knowing how the nervous system works and it helps with, you know, these, these pillars sort of like layer onto one another because the more understanding I've had, How my nervous system works, the easier it is for me to be compassionate that this is a biologically driven response that I'm experiencing.
Yeah, yeah.
Julie: Great. Add on. Mm.
Casey: So that's pillar two. What about
Julie: pillar three case? Do you [00:12:00] wanna take that
Casey: one and, yeah. Yeah. For, for some reason I just keep thinking of like Andrew's story and pillar two. So, dear listener, we tell, we tell people stories through composite characters. We interviewed a whole bunch of people.
Um, a whole bunch of leaders and ask them questions about embodiment and leadership and their challenges, et cetera. And then we created these characters out of those interviews. And so there's one character that whose story we share in each pillar. And so, yeah, I'm, uh, I'm just have these characters coming to mind as we start to talk about the pillars.
So you meet, um, you meet Carrie in pillar one, and you meet Andrew in Pillar two. And in pillar three, you. Melissa. So, um, pillar three is about taking risks and practicing courage. And again, like these pillars all build on one another. So this is really about how, how attuning to how our body feels when we're scared can actually help us with being more innovative and taking the risks that are [00:13:00] necessary for growth, both personally, but also in leadership spaces.
Of course, you know, I'm just speaking for myself as an entrepreneur. Like every day I'm taking risks. Every day I'm creating something from nothing. And especially given the, the work, even just any work around embodiment, it's still relatively new. And so it's like risky, even sharing messages about embodiment and trying to like weave, embodiment, leadership together.
And so pillar three is really about how can this attunement to the body. Support you with creating space for the discomfort that's naturally gonna be there when risk taking happens, and especially as a follow up to what you learn in pillar two about nervous system regulation. It helps you with discovering your own sort of nuanced sense of what is appropriate, like how safe do you need to feel in your.
To, to feel like regulated and integrated, but [00:14:00] also how can you be with maybe stretching yourself and stretching your, we call it your window of resilience built off of Dr. Dan Siegel's window of tolerance. How can you stretch in order to grow? How can you practice taking risks and practice courage in order to continue to expand and.
As you can probably hear, like it's all about coming back to the body. This whole book is about coming back to the body, bringing the body on board, seeing the mind body as one whole integrated system. So, uh, taking risks really starts with the foundation of being able to be with discomfort and not being super reactive to it, but actually like allowing yourself to be conscious and intentional and thoughtful.
Next steps that you might wanna take in the name of growth and also where it might be useful to not take risks and practice courage and actually choose playing it safe. Cuz that's helpful for us [00:15:00] too, in certain moments. Yeah. I love that you
Julie: distinguished between the when, when it might actually be wise or useful, and I think that's one of the underlying themes across the book is there is not one right or wrong action or way of being.
It's really about tuning in and acting with intentionality. So sometimes you. Disconnecting or not showing up, um, putting up some walls to hide vulnerability might be very workable, but when we do that as our default, um, time and time again, it doesn't allow us to, to connect in our lives, to show up in a way that brings meaning and, um, deepening connections.
Which I think leads to pillar four. Well, all about consciously [00:16:00] connecting with yourself and others. Uh, so this pillar is, um, one that speaks to the different cues in our relationships and in ourselves that, um, let us know it's safe or not safe. Everything from attachment theory. So we give a really. Um, brief overview on how we can identify our own attachment patterns in relationships, including in work leadership relationships that may be getting in the way, and how we might consciously, um, grow more secure attachment in our, in our relationships.
I can speak for myself, working with the two of you. It was a very healing, securely attached collaborative relationship that, that we had. Um, And yeah, there, you know, there is not our, our attachment style or pattern is not set in stone. So we're often given messages in society that, oh, [00:17:00] you are this or you're that, and you know, that's just how it's gonna be.
That's part of your personality, and we don't purport that at all. So it's about what can you do? How can you, Really grow and plant the seeds in your both internal environment and your external, you know, social and physical environment to support, um, connection, everything from who you spend time around.
I, I know we probably all have that experience of initially meeting someone and just getting like the hair on. Arms or something stands up, like you just don't feel safe or like you can trust that person. There's a sense of maybe unease in the pet of your stomach. And in polyvagal theory terms, we might call that neuroception of danger.
So it's like that spidey sense of, ooh, be careful here. And so really tuning in and, and paying attention to those cues, which you've learned in the earlier pillars. [00:18:00] And then using those two. Really bring on board,
Casey: um, connections
Julie: in your life, people in your life, connecting and leaning into the places in your life where there is more of a sense of security and safety and possibility for real authentic attachment.
Um, And through that process, another theme that is pivotal is that of boundaries. Um, the past few years with, with everything that's gone on, not that this wasn't important before, but with so many more of us working, you know, telework or remote work boundaries have become a popular theme. So how can you create com some sort of healthy boundary between work and personal life and that sort of thing?
Um, but boundaries go. Beyond that. So how can we really support ourselves with, um, healthy boundaries and, you know, with ourselves, [00:19:00] but also with our community of people. Um, so yeah, this is consciously connecting with, with yourself and others. Pillar four,
anything more either of you would add to?
Courtney: Well, maybe I can pick up from what you just said, uh, Julie, to bring us to Pillar five. Mm-hmm. Um, tying in this idea of boundaries to the notion of, of trust and connecting and integrating to our own body wisdom. And so I don't know that I've always had, I know that I happen to always had really good.
I know that by not having good boundaries, I've taught other people how it was okay to interact with me, even if it wasn't okay, even if my body was not [00:20:00] on board with that con, that kind of interaction or that kind of connection. And so in pillar four, we tie boundaries to leadership and. Call on leaders to create safe spaces by being really clear on what is acceptable and unacceptable.
Really clear about where things start and and end. And when people know what the rules of engagement are, they feel more trusting and more comfortable in those types of environments. And so in pillar five, when we dig into to trust and integr, We're starting to, to really, I think, bring together all of the elements of the book, um, in support of that trust.
And so in that pillar, we start to talk about what trust actually is and how trust isn't just [00:21:00] something in our minds. It's not just a way that we think about other people or about ourselves. It's, it's something that we sense in our bodies. And by that point we've talked so much about how to connect with your body signals that hopefully the reader starts to understand what those signals of trust look like for them.
And to Julie's point, there's no one way of being here. How trust feels like in my body is gonna be different from how trust feels like in your body. And that's perfectly fine. It's, it's just being able to tap into that to understand and. We talk about the responsibility of the leader in creating these environments where trust can flourish.
Because if we don't have that trust, um, it's, it's difficult to get things done together. When we get to this notion of, um, of integrating body wisdom, [00:22:00] I'll maybe hand it to you, Casey, because you bring some of. The, the, the work that you've developed through your coaching of leaders, uh, to that. So how they can tap into their bodies and actually get clear signals from their bodies on, on what they can, uh, what they can do next, what their next step might be.
Do you wanna speak a little bit more
Casey: about that? Yeah. Yeah. And it, I think it. Of course we're experiencing a flow in this conversation right now. That beautifully ties into pillar six, of course. Um, so yeah, Courtney, you've really been talking about trust, uh, interpersonal trust in a way. And of course there's this intrapersonal like trust of self, trust of body sensation, trust of the wisdom that comes from those sensations.
And so when it comes to like integrating body wisdom, uh, one of the tools that I, that was developed through creating my Ted Talk and that I use with [00:23:00] clients and is, is in the book. In this pillar is the body acronym exercise. So B stands for breathe. O is observe, meaning observing physical sensations or an inner experience.
D is delay. Don't fix it. Just feel it and wait for wisdom to be revealed from those sensations around what you might need. And then why is about saying yes to that? Evidence builds confidence. And so when it comes to like self-trust, the more that we can attune to our body's wisdom and mine that sensation for.
For an action step even, and then act in alignment and receive sort of the relief or the satisfaction of acting in alignment. More confidence builds from the evidence that it's safe to trust, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. And so it's a very like integrative process to, to tune into that body [00:24:00] wisdom to receive, um, even action steps, like on a simple level.
Body is saying, I'm cold and the action is put a sweater on me. And then you do that and it's like, oh, I feel warm now. Great. That's evidence that you could trust the body's wisdom. That said it was cold, so, um, This process of like inter trusts and integrating that wisdom and creating then safe spaces where trust can exist between people and there can be a way to support each other with integrating, like that's all an important part of the Embodied Leader path.
And Pillar six of, uh, the Mind Body Way is about finding purpose and contribution. And so we believe. Through attuning to body wisdom, you're also getting closer and closer to understanding, you know, who you really are and what you're really here for, and how you wanna create [00:25:00] purpose and meaning in life and leadership.
And so the whole book builds on these pillars and you know, as you go through it, listener as you. Use the exercises that we share at the end of each pillar, automatically you're gonna become more connected to yourself and what's true for you. Your truth, and what I've learned through my work with others is that it's the same mechanism.
Say you're at an ice cream shop and you're deciding between chocolate and strawberry ice cream, your body's gonna tell you if you want the chocolate or the strawberry ice cream. And it's the same mechanism that says like, is this action aligned for my life or not? You know, it's just small decisions, big decisions.
And so connecting with body wisdom can absolutely connect you to your. Deeper why to what you really care about, to what you're here on the planet to do. And for me, a lot of that has had to do with like [00:26:00] love connecting with the energy of love and acting from that space. So I personally believe that the manifestation of your purpose can change moment to moment as we grow.
Um, and the kind of grounding force is. Embodiment peace. So in pillar six, uh, you meet a really wise human named Darshan, who I honestly, whenever I read pillar six, I get brought to tears by, by basically his words. Like, there's so many potent, profound truths that are shared in that pillar that just feel like, um, wisdom to take forward, you know?
Mm-hmm. So, Yeah, I wanna rip off of
Julie: what you're saying there, case. Um, I'm imagining the reader out there that is thinking to themselves, um, you know, I'm so disconnected from myself. I don't even know if I want strawberry or chocolate ice cream. Like, how is this book gonna help me? [00:27:00] And I wanna reassure you that.
Your natural state is one of an embodied state. It's our toxic culture, it's social socialization that has led, um, us to become more disembodied. And this book is a very practical pathway back to your natural state. And so wherever you're starting from is just perfect.
Casey: Thank you so much for tuning in. It's so awesome always to have you here. If you'd like to get the Mind Body Way book in your hands, well just go to mind body way book.com, and there you will find our suggested retailer links. Once you purchase the book, have a read and then be sure to write us a review.
Your reviews help us to get this wisdom in front of more people and together we can change the way that leadership is. Thank you so very much for your support and I can't wait to chat with you [00:28:00] soon. Bye for now.
